*, p.325 (Zondervan; Walker revised Large-print edit., 1996), Then, Smedes asks for a two-fold change in our way of thinking and doing. (3) The amazing amount of health in this broken world is a greater sign and wonder than an occasional healing from illness. (Note that Iâve said he uses not causes suffering for his people. God gives inner strength that compensates for loss, and gives the sufferer the resourcefulness to live faithfully and effectively. verb: to feel pain, undergo a harsh penalty (esp. But only once it has beat its last is it ready for a new beginning. May this testimony of John Farese be an encouragement. From His creative hands came all things beautiful and good (Genesis 1:31) Because He did not want a kingdom full of robotic, forced-to-love citizens, He gave us free will. The spiritual gains don't come from your ordeal, or even from the suffering itself. Spiritual gifts are from the Strongest One acting through the weak on behalf of the weakest. Torture and anguish are terrible to go through. We rejoice for our own gain, our own health. Q : Why can someone who is a true Christian die this painfully ? And proclaiming your personal joy to those who mourned their dead." We aren't supposed to like suffering. This book provides a valuable overview of the biblical teaching on suffering, but it does much more than that. The very fact that there is such human suffering gives good cause to doubt not only the value of the whole human race, but also the existence of any God that can be said to care in the slightest for what's been created, any God who has power over all things, any God who is anything other than a horrible brute who finds sadistic whimsical joy in squeezing every last drop of anguish out of those who've been created. If that offends some of you, well, tough. But this is simply not the case, everyone has unique troubles. We many times moan and whinge when things do not go right. And Jesus suffers alongside each one who suffers, ever more so as it increases. He can no longer move His legs to where the sufferers are, so that He can physically address them face to face, look them in the eyes, grasp hold of their needs, render through sound waves the needed words of comfort or challenge, lay hands to bring physical healing. Jesus spoke endlessly about serving and being a servant, of being a neighbor to others like the Samaritan who cared, of loving others, and most importantly those we find hard to love, with the intensity and single-mindedness with which we love ourselves. Since God is completely good, how could He use suffering? Related Bible Verses: 2 Corinthians 5:14: âTherefore we do not lose heart. that by yourself, you flail and fall and fail -- and so does everyone else. We sold my car to get the down payment for our house, so we were running around with one car for a while. if endured willingly). Jesus knows. that it's a good thing to let down the walls you use to guard your inner, that when you've got little to lose, you're freer to. The story of Job is not Godâs last word. Lewis Smedes put the problem this way, when seeing the fuss that was made over miracle healings at his college : "It was a feeling I could not shake -- not a scholar's argument, more like a mood or maybe an intuition, but in any case a stubborn, uneasy feeling about the fittingness, even the decency, of celebrating far and wide the miraculous healing of a relatively few ailments within a world endemically infected by enormous, intractable, unalleviated suffering. Everyone suffers. Where is God when we suffer? Anna rated it liked it Jan 25, 2020. Suffering is always a mystery without a satisfactory answer, but suffering can be an occasion for us to allow God even closer to us into our lives. Holding Onto Hope When Experiencing Injustice, How God Gives Us What We Need to Make It Through Our Difficult Circumstance, Navigating Suffering When We Want to Understand, When You Need to Know Your Next Step of Faith, 5 Strategies for Dealing With Depression, Part 2, Pushing Past Our Breaking Points to Do the Will of God, Maintaining a Firm Faith in Difficult Circumstances. (If we enjoyed it, it wouldn't be suffering, would it?) Yet Jesus is not the Christian's answer to suffering by Himself. That is what God is. 2. The response Jesus gave was to bear the burdens of those he touched. We know this because that's how it was for Jesus. In a way, the gifts are geared toward suffering, because spiritual gifts are meant to be for the good of others. Jesus is the divine answer to creation's struggles. ; (rare) to put up with, tolerate unhappily. One thing I think is clear: we rejoice too narrowly. But there are examples that point to another way: the songs of the Mothers' Unions in South Africa; the almost constant spiritual singing of the 1950s-60s civil rights movement in the United States; the way that the Bethel New Life folks in Chicago celebrate each small victory for their community. The Spirit gives hope, which itself creates perseverance. It is really relatable. He never gives us a trial without first giving us the strength to endure. back to top. The devil uses it to cause confusion, anger, delusion, or resignation. But by choosing to fully take part in what is happening. A phrase that the New Testament used for describing the fellowship of Christ's followers is "the Body of Christ". : What the Bible Says about Suffering: Lynn Gardner: Amazon.sg: Books God is closer to us than we are to ourselves, so to speak. Our duty is not to tell them to smile harder or to feed them false hopes, but to make it so that they can live amidst their grief and perhaps be led forward with their life. And the churches too often sit still for the creation of such suffering. YOU MUST THANK GOD FOR MAKING YOU SUFFER.IT IS GOD ' S WILL . There have been some contemplative writers and teachers who thought so. Smedes wasn't trying to be a spoil-sport or a party-pooper by bringing this up. Or run-of-the-mill empires that knaves make worse! Rachel added it Apr 08, 2008. This 'good effect' doesn't change the nature or 'badness' of it; it is what it is. (p.20) : "I find it strange that governments and societies find it so easy to do things to make the poor poorer and to rob the disadvantaged of what little possibilities they might have. The Book of Job seems apt for our times. The law is the law and even God cannot get around it. Thanks to Jesus, the reply of God is no mystery, or at least, no more mysterious than love itself. It is part of being alive. ------ Brother Lawrence (Nicolas Herman). But, the fact is, pain and suffering are here among us, and we need to respond in some way. (4) Pray for power encounters between Christ and the devil in the matrix of devilish political systems. 3. Verb with object: to be subjected to s.th., to endure s.th. God invites us into His school of comfort where we study His ministry and methods of comfort to equip us to be His agents of comfort to others. It is filled with practical counsel and encouragement drawn from a life that has experienced the pain of trekking through some of life's darkest moments. Where is God when we suffer? We have to understand fully the concept of free will in order to address this appropriately. What did you learn from it, if anything? Michelle Thayn rated it liked it Mar 02, 2009. And justly so. Dr. Gardner then guides us through a study of both Old and New Testament examples of people who suffer. Cut loose, revel in it, praise the Lord 'til you drop! The experience of what we experience when we suffer, first heartbeat to last. The simple answer is that God is where people suffer most. Jesus is the answer Christians have for the problem of human suffering. Human suffering destroys and beats people down. The choice: soiled ancient diapers, skinned childhood knees, and dirtied adult feet. that it grabs you and drags you to the place where you discover how much you need God's grace. Not by overriding the freedom God had put into nature and into creatures, especially the human ones. Thanks for replying, I've been reading psalms a lot actually. He cautions the reader against blaming God for the free will he has given to human beings. God felt what acceptance and rejection and pain are like at a human level. Then again, it seems apt for any time. As C.S. I believe the idea of God letting people suffer is a huge stumbling block for many people. Isnât suffering the work of satan? Or is God at work in ways that perhaps we've not even imagined?Libby Lane was rece... â Listen to Libby Lane - How is God with us when we suffer? the Holy Spirit and You It's the right instinct. If I make the second shift, I am more open to the power of the Spirit to give me courage to will to suffer when suffering can be redemptive to those who suffer." This can come across as blaming God for an evil . God seems far away when we suffer. › They do not remove all human suffering from life, and there are still many others in the same misery that was just healed. Not that they too can't find gain or hope or even happiness, because many of them really do. And God is always there as a healing, loving, liberating, strengthening presence. Thatâs what, now the where. ", The amazing amount of health in this broken world is a greater sign and wonder than an occasional healing from illness, Why can someone who is a true Christian die this painfully, No exemptions have been granted -- not even for Christ, Orig. Not by working instant repairs on the universe so that all is blissfully well (that would be a jerk-God, a more powerful version of the fools I wrote off earlier), or by pulling a string here or there from a distance. No problem has the capacity to be insurmountable to God. It is part of being alive. We live in a disordered, broken existence, and this brokenness includes our bodies. Freedom to choose good or evil. The experience of what we experience when we suffer, first heartbeat to last. In each of the three readings today we see people suffering in ⦠Where is God When We Suffer? What the Spirit gives is resources so we can face it and make something positive come from it. It has to do with the fact that we don't live in the Kingdom. But sometimes we may simply need to rethink where and how we look for God when we suffer because, like Elijah, we may be looking for God in the earthquake or a great fire when God has appeared in a gentle whisper. As Paul saw it, they are a unit, a whole, just as a human body is a whole, yet each believer is an identifiable part with a function in the overall Body. At their very best, they eliminate a particular suffering of a particular person. Jesus was that choice. Or good empires that bunglers mismanage! back to top. Lewis expressed it, who is concerned only that we all have a âgood timeâ here below. Human Wrecks. Smedes went on to remind us of some things which we must remember, if not as we celebrate, at least after we do. but only this, my God -- But even more : God had to face the ultimate in human rejection -- to be publicly executed for having spoken and lived the truth. "You need not cry very loud; God is nearer to us than we think. This question has probably created more atheists than any other question. Jesus can no longer hold the hand of the sufferer, wrap His arms around them, and give the comfort of a physical embrace. When we suffer we may be tempted in a moment of weakness to think that God has abandoned us but that is not the case at all. Since God wants to bless His children, why does He allow them to suffer? When we think He is not in control, it is only because our minds can never grasp the will and power of God. God canât suffer with me. What does all this mean? WHERE. Definition: To suffer [< Old French sufrir < Latin sufferre (to bear, undergo, carry the burden of, bearing the ordeal of), < sub- (under, beneath, holding up from below) + ferre (to carry)]. The Spirit gives wisdom to find the way past it, and to learn from it. We would like God to express His love for us by merely extending kindness (by which we really mean indulgence) as opposed to outgoing concern and involvement. 𤢠But, I got through it, despite many temptations to sink into depression and anger with our situation and all the hormones. To be frank, we human beings are wrecks. For all of them, grief will remain a part of even the best times. His role as head is signaled to the Body through the Spirit, the nerve impulses that cause the Body to work. It begins with Lynn's own story of loss and suffering. book. We weren't created to suffer. You learn that more good things happen when you cooperate. That's something not even God wanted to go through, but the whole point of it all was to go through things that no one wants to go through, if that's what it takes to complete the task at hand, for real. But only some, and definitely not most. They need real hopes, and Christians are called on to help make real hopes take root. He's right. True, we have no right at all to expect or demand a suffering-free state of false bliss that would leave each and all of us as bored dilettants living a sterile and stupid life. A better question and one I have been thinking about for a while concerns specifically the three deaths in my family in such a short amount of time. Published on Spirithome, executed for having spoken and lived the truth, injustice and oppression by governments, armies, economies, or social structures. As Smedes put it, "Evil empires! In the end, we realized that healing had a discernment aspect to it: before we began to pray we would seek God for HOW to pray in line with his purposes." But if good things can come from suffering, doesn't that make it good? And, the Spirit created a body of believers, with the gifts to support and strengthen. Where is God when He allows us to suffer? The gains come from the fact that God (and, like God, we ourselves) can take 'bad', 'horrible', and even 'evil' situations and make something good come from them. Think back on some ordeal you have suffered in the past. Without this perspective we will not experience Godâs comforting presence in our suffering. He receives a letter inviting him to come back to the place where she was killed. Even if God wanted to show compassion on a sinful humanity, the justice of God would not allow it. And taking us through suffering, not out of it, is one of the primary means that the Spirit uses today in bringing us to God." Write a review. In conclusion, then, what we can say about Godâs whereabouts when we suffer is that God has not abandoned us. But does there have to be the kind of suffering that some people go through? addresses the topic from up close and personal as well as from the objective view of Scripture. Where is God when we suffer? Join us this week as we discuss the various considerations and examples Catholics can keep in mind to help them navigate the difficulties suffering brings. He is bigger than all the problems that can hit us, and we are not left alone to deal with them. God's Word tells us, "The Lord is good, a refuge in times of trouble. Nor is it His last deed. Why pain and sorrow since God ⦠God walked among people in the same way they walk among each other, talk to them at their level, with their sufferings small and large, face to face, person to person. Because of our anticipation, we witnessed many healings; but it also took us a long time to come to grips with the redemptive aspects of suffering. Where is God When We Suffer? Letâs face it. Jenna rated it really liked it Aug 04, 2012. Now, I think God is with all of us, and weâll end todayâs time with that. He is not just omnipotent; he is also the God of all comfort. ------ Mother Theresa. A mountain of dung is no less filthy when there's a diamond in it. After all, God is powerful enough to end your suffering, but He hasnât. Let us receive the rewards of heaven through our blessed Lord. Who needs the benefits from those gifts more than those who suffer? I do not even want to know why I suffer; God just does it, and is committed to it because of love. Carnal man would like God to keep him out of painful situations ⦠Suffering that will end in a slow death, like lung cancer? But there is a more serious kind of strange feeling over celebrating, a strange feeling that is more relevant to spiritual concerns. Crippled for most of his life ⦠(We can safely ignore the many fools who think that way.) Of apparently unquenchable pain, immeasurable loss, utter hopelessness, total abandonment? While faith in God doesn't logically stand or fall just on this matter, it hinges on it more than any other so far as our experience of the life of faith is concerned. You'll never know the reason why, or even if there is a reason. If God had to allow them to suffer the consequence of eating from the forbidden tree, then it begs the question â why did God put the tree there in the first place? › We all face suffering in some way, shape or form. That, of course, is just being grumpy; it seems to come easier with age. It's a mystery. 1990 on GEnie, then 1992 ECUnet. God Was Right There. And we then stop and pray that God shows us how to be of service in Jesus' work of bring wholeness where there is suffering. The kinds that we don't want to have. We have to think seriously about what God can give us through hardship. 4. QUESTIONS ABOUT SUFFERING 1. Insights Magazine Thu, 14th May 2020 Review: The Book of Job: A Biography (Lives of Great Religious Books), Mark Larrimore, Princeton. Philip Yancey, *Where Is God When It Hurts? That's a good indicator that God agrees with you, and is working on it, in tears. As believers, we can be assured of this truth found in Scripture: God is with us, a constant friend (Matthew 28:20; John 15:12-15). Freedom to choose God or self. Some of the simpler answers include responses like 1) we suffer as a direct result of our sin; 2) we suffer as the consequence of someone elseâs sin; 3) we suffer because we live in a fallen world; 4) we suffer because God wants to teach us something; 5) it is not for us to know; and so on. 7 Comments Posted by The Cidrìe on July 22, 2014. On several occasions, I've stumbled upon some people celebrating for whatever reason, and snickered, 'what's happened to them that's worth partying over?' The Spirit gives the direction and power to make these resources work. (p.20). How does the Bible speak into dark times? (2) Healing from within suffering is as wonderful as healing from it. It felt to me like proclaiming that God is alive and well in the world because you survived an airplane crash in which everyone else perished. He was trying to remind us that while there are some things to celebrate, our celebration is, at its most, only partial. (p.21). Where Is God When We Suffer Where Is God When We Suffer by Lynn Gardner. Every Easter, Christians revel in the empty tomb, the risen and present Lord of all, whose love meant that death could not be -- must not be -- the final answer. This is the effect of being part of a broken, sinful world. But let's use a biological angle, one that the apostle Paul used: Jesus is the head of the Body. There is no time when He is not there. 12 1994. In many cases He carries us through our problems, other times He allows us to get in trouble to bring us to a stronger faith. God doesn't have to suffer. ------ Tennessee Williams, in the London *Observer*, 1958. .... Name your system, and the devil will be there." If God suffers with us, and often has something in mind to come from it, ought we start to think that suffering is good? I suspect that Smedes' strict Calvinist upbringing might have predisposed him to distrust celebration. God taught them in their language, with sound waves instead of spiritual whispers, from within their specific tradition, from within the world they knew, a world teeming with truth smothered in their own lies. If what you're looking at isn't much of an answer to anyone's torment, then pray that the Spirit's signals start directing you. In this episode we discuss the challenges one faces when they suffer, the common questions they ask, and the various ways Catholics have made sense of suffering in order to discover hope. God suffers the way of a lover being wronged, the way of a father awaiting his lost son. Should we expect God to resolve our suffering? The second is a shift away from viewing goodness in life as an entitlement and toward living life as a servant and disciple of Christ. In the movie âThe Shack,â the main character is in great pain at the murder of his little daughter. Yet we do suffer, from first heartbeat to last. Jesus suffered and died, so we could escape this world of sin and death. He only watches.â But there is more. We had about a month of uncertainty after losing my job, and wow, is it tough to be on interviews when youâre first trimester nauseous! Other times He chastizes us to correct us. As a God who has died and has risen. What a Christian does for those who suffer, and a virtue and fruit of the Spirit which is much needed in suffering. Read reviews from worldâs largest community for readers. ", "Some of us will not see pain as a gift; some will always accuse God of being unfair for allowing it. ------ C.S. With compassion and honor given to those who lost their lives, he asks questions about what we do when suffering seems unfair. What's next? Have you ever thought of the sovereignty of God? That is, if you can call something 'life' which has no challenges, no repentances, no learning, no growing, all of which only come through trial, error, taking part, success, pain, loss, and hurt. Why God doesn't eliminate suffering in our life? back to top, "In seeking God's power, I discovered his person. He is suffering with us. In all our thoughts about suffering, we have sidestepped the main issue and focused on the secondary issue. ------ Todd Hunter, in an interiew on the late Off the Map website. Where Is God Ministries strives to help friends, family and churches better understand how to minister to those living with limitations due to chronic illness, pain, injury and disabilities. God was using the very pain I was resenting to prove His faithfulness and shape me into the man He was calling me to be. We're so fragile, yet we live, and most of us most of the time live fairly healthfully. Jesus' example is that of putting others first, not ourselves or those we think of as being like us. The Holy Spirit does not stop life from having hardships. Where Is God When We Suffer? This is the effect of being part of a broken, sinful world. With thoughtful discussion questions at the end of each chapter, there is much to think about and discuss. So the question I have pondered and cried out is why ? However, if we go through them while knowing God, we can react to them with a different perspective and with a strength that is not our own. That, of course, means that Jesus is not the arms, legs, hands, and such. If you start there, youâll reach a dead end pretty quickly. How do you live life differently now because of it. To live in the world as his body, his emotional incarnation, we must follow his example." Blog Set-Up By Blogelina. This is basically where Pat Robertson left Haiti. God hasnât promised to explain everything about what He does and what He allows. "Despair is suffering without meaning." There's something odd about seeing someone celebrate over a miracle. to depend on what's done by those who aren't suffering, and sometimes by others who are. Whatever God does in us and for us is meant to reach beyond us to others. It can cause a person to react Even that last heartbeat, even in its lastness. All have sinned, Paul wrote, therefore no one is truly innocent. ), grief, anguish, dolor (rare), passion (used rarely in the sense of 'suffering'), torment, pain, hurt, agony, woe. Where is God when we suffer? Those who are broken may remain broken. .... except that God knows this is true, and set out to do something about it. "They say of some temporal suffering, 'No future bliss can make up for it,' not knowing that Heaven, once attained, will work backwards and turn even that agony into a glory." ), "You need not cry very loud; God is nearer to us than we think." I think that those personal healings should not just be acknowledged, not just be warmly received, but there really should be flat-out rejoicing. What kind of suffering? It's this fact that gives you real reason to hope as you suffer. It would seem to rule out anything even vaguely resembling the God that Christians speak of -- and rule in a God who deserves our utter hatred not our worship. However they're brought about, healings can be signs "that God is alive, that Christ is Lord, and that suffering is not the last word about human existence" (p.19). No exemptions have been granted -- not even for Christ, who had to suffer and die. do I suffer for Your sake?" Don't believe anyone who says they know, because they're liars. To be clear, I absolutely do no want to negate the fact that God may indeed be absent or at least agonizingly silent at times. Whether or not we can see it, our suffering has a purpose. When we suffer He is there, when we joy, He is there. 8 years ago. Jesus is no longer physically here. Lewis, "Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it." Jesus cares. ------ Helen Keller, *Optimism*, "I do not ask You to take away my suffering; Why suffer? "Don't look forward to the day you stop suffering, because when it comes you'll know you're dead." There he met three very unusual people â an older, black women playing God the Father, a young man playing God the Son, and a young Asian women playing God the Holy Spirit. The only difference and comfort for a Christian is that death doesn't have the final word. But let's not overstate their importance. that suffering, like death, has a way of stripping away the differences we-all have created. It is an unavoidable aspect of life. The first shift, the same change that churches such as the Vineyard and the COGIC ask for, is to see the world as a battleground of spirits. (In fact, that's what 'for real' is all about. ------ Levi Yitzhok of Berditchev. Worse, the seething anger that sometimes lies behind it has probably created more insane people than any other. We celebrate the healings we get, but what about the healings which, by the grace of God, we don't need, or the miseries that aren't there? In our pain, we long to know why God allows grief and hardship into our lives. Smedes writes, "If I make the first shift, I am more open to the power of the Spirit to act in response to peoples' suffering. God suffers the way of a lover being wronged, the way of a father awaiting his lost son. Every Christmas, Christians celebrate (or are supposed to celebrate) this choice. Download it Where Is God When We Suffer books also available in PDF, EPUB, and Mobi Format for read it on your Kindle device, PC, phones or tablets. (*Reformed Journal*, Feb 1989, p.14). First, we remember God is not the author of pain and suffering. There are many angles to this, angles which are marital, medical, and so on. 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